Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the Table Service Podcast where we'll dish on all things support, success and beyond with the people and companies building the future of customer experience.
Table Service is presented by Tavalo Consulting and I'm your host, Jordan Hooker. Vashily D. Alani is a multi award winning CX professional, recognized as a Rising Star of the Year 2024, expa Emerging Leader and a CX Leader of the Year 2023 finalist. She firmly believes in the power of knowledge sharing to f foster growth and awareness within the community. With over nine years as a data savvy, experience strategist, research specialist and transformational change maker, Vishali passionately advocates for integrating emotions and efficiency through customer experience, research, product insights and communications. Vishali, welcome to the table.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Thank you so much. I am super, super excited to be here. I've had my coffee and I'm ready for this conversation.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Perfect. Got mine as well. It's a good, good early morning for us here on the east coast. Excited for this conversation. For our listeners who may not be familiar with you, would love to just take a few minutes to have you share a little bit more about yourself and about the work that you do.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I've lived a former life in Dubai for almost over nearly three decades and born and raised there and I recently made the move to Canada. So it's been quite a transition. Understanding what the weather looks like and getting to do domestic chores on your own. So that's been a transition and a new thing in my life. But besides that, professionally I am customer experience professional and strategist. My focus is integrating emotions in the world of technology and that's what I really believe in, is that we all are human first and we our work comes into a part of our life and what we do. And so I'm a customer for somebody and I want to make sure that those experiences are the best and the most seamless ones that we can ever have.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Sure, absolutely. And I think that's a key thing as it was in our first season of this podcast with our guests. That's really a passion that I've seen growing more and more across the cx. So I'm very excited to add this conversation to that collection of knowledge share there.
Awesome. Well, let's hop into the conversation. A few topics for us to talk about today. One of those is particular around kind of what it looks like as you're in the mid stage of your career, so you've been working in this space for nine or ten years. I'm not Too far ahead. I've been in customer experience for nearing 13, 14 years, so we're still kind of in that, that middle stage and a lot of our listeners are likely early stage support and success.
More practitioners that are just starting to build their career. So I'd love to take a few minutes to talk about what, first and foremost, pivotal moments in your career. As you think about what brought you into this space and then how you've grown in this space and then let's talk a little bit about what keeps you coming back. We all know that this world can be challenging, so let's dig into to that piece first.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first piece is just in terms of the pivotal moments and what made me kind of, you know, get to see X. I have to say that I've been a very curious person. That's my personality. And so ever since I joined, you know, graduated and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get into marketing. Very early on I realized and picked it. I'm like, I don't like the whole package that marketing comes with. I like aspects of marketing.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: So just that awareness as just a 20 year old girl to have that and be so vocal about it and say, okay, let's go search something. What I really enjoy and be on that self discovery journey, I think that was definitely life changing and I think that was not very common around me.
Having said that, when I got into understanding what I like and don't like, one of the key things that I really enjoyed was research. And research was the foundation of. Little did I know that it was going to be what CX strategy is and how it kind of bases my foundation for my career. But I am big on research and the fact I love about research is connecting the dots and finding patterns and being able to, you know, get to the final destination. So I really enjoy Sudoku or puzzles. And little did I know that that kind of mindset, that analytical mindset kind of grew from that very early on in my childhood. But these are patterns that I've started doing research on myself. I'm like, okay, why do I like this? Why do I not like that? So that goes back to that. But having said that, when I joined my career, when you're in your early 20s, you flow with what's coming through and you're like, okay, let's just, whatever we get, let's just take. But I was very mindful of whatever came my way. I think making those conscious choices very early on in my career were definitely defining moments. For me to kind of be awarded as an rising star and emerging leader just five, six years into my career. And that to my cxpa. Second thing that I feel were definitely pivotal is being vocal about it. Not many people were aware of what CX was. It was during COVID that I realized that I need to do some research on myself. I know a lot about different platforms. I've worked with startups. So you know your startups are like almost unpaid universities so you learn so much about different business operations, how to get things up and running. But it was during COVID that I did a lot of research on myself and found cx and I was like, this is perfect. It's what I love. I can do anything and everything during different parts of the day because of the different competencies of cx. And it's just that umbrella that I feel safe in, I really enjoy. So that's what led me to CX actually. And then starting to be vocal about it and putting my voice out there, there without like, oh, what if people don't see? Or what if it's not liked by anyone? Or just not reflecting my learnings or insights or being fearful about putting it out there. I think that made a huge difference because I was one of the first ever young CX people in the region as well. Amazing mentors, amazing community. I think that really helped me get through because you wouldn't be able to do that otherwise.
But I think the one that really changed me and gave me that kind of confidence was submitting applications and actually getting like awarded for it. And I was like, that's something. There's a sense of credibility that you're not just all in your head about where you can get to. It's actually possible if you put in the effort and hard work into it.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I think that, that, you know, obviously we know it's, it's key to be confident in ourselves and in the work we do and have that level of confidence. But it is such an encouragement to, to have other sources of that encouragement of that validation of the work, work you're doing. I think we see these days a lot of companies and a lot of people who are building things thinking they have everything figured out and they're not looking for that communication. Now obviously there's people we're not going to take that advice from. And that rule of life is that I don't take criticism from people from whom I wouldn't take advice. And so I measure that carefully and who I listen to and, and what it looks like, to filter that feedback.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: No, I hear you. And I have to definitely point this out and let you know that I was very outgoing. I would reach out to people and be like, hey, I want to have a conversation. And people be like, why would we talk to you? You know, so I've had. I've had some really unkind people respond to me as well, and it's fine. I think that taught me. That taught me resilience, that taught me to keep going. And so thanks to them, I have these skills that I wouldn't have otherwise.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: I'm a firm, firm, firm believer of. Every rejection is a redirection. I cannot emphasize on this enough of how important that mindset has helped me and shaped me into who I've.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And I think that's something that we, especially in Western culture, I know we've struggled with the. Like, rejection is a terrible thing, and it's a bad thing, and discomfort is something that we want to avoid. But I've also found in my life, both in my work and in my personal life, that discomfort is the thing that brings growth.
That's the way we grow.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: I'd love to just ask you this question about, you know, thinking about your career and where you are now. If we had somebody that's listening, that's still, let's say, pretty early in their career and they're trying to. To navigate what does it look like to decide what the next step is? Maybe they've got an opportunity in front of them. They're not really sure about this is the right direction. What advice would you give that person as they. As they think about making those decisions?
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Great question. I think the fact that they are thinking about it is the first step. So I'm very happy that if they're thinking in that direction and not just going with the flow and being very intentional about what their decisions are, I think that's very, very important. Important. So that's. The first step, is being intentional. The second step, I would reckon, is knowing a lot about yourself and being very confident in the fact that you have great awareness on who you are and where you want to go.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: If you're grounded in that aspect and content, where you're like, okay, I know that the next. The roadmap for my me looks like X, Y, and Z. And this opportunity kind of fits right in perfect, you'll be able to kind of figure out that compass accordingly. The career compass, once you're. Once you're centered, so that center is really important.
And the third thing I think which is super important is the community.
It's the people and the culture. So I always say, and I really believe that I've had touchwood, the best people to work with over the years. And people are usually shocked. They're like, even in your 20s, I'm like, yeah, I, I'm still in touch with my first boss and I'm still in touch with the founders of the startup. And I. And we just chat. And so those people shape who you are not just at work, because you spend more than half your life at work. So it's not just an opportunity. It defines your lifestyle, it defines your, your family balance. It defines everything around you during those years that you're in that opportunity.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: So the culture is extremely important and the people you work with. So make sure you have the right information about are you the right fit for that? So just expectations wise. Right. If you're expected to work really long hours, but that's not something that fits with your lifestyle, then don't do it.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: So just be very centered about who you want to, intentional about where you want to go, centered on what you want to know. And third thing is talk to the right people and understanding that culture is a great fit for you.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: I think that's great advice and I think it helps narrow down for us the things that are, that are most critical and important.
Well, let's shift to another topic. One of the things that we discussed in our call as we were thinking about this episode is talk to a lot of tech folks. What does it look like to have customer experience in technology specific, startup specific. But I'd like to talk with you a little bit about in other spaces. Manufacturing, health care, nonprofit, what, what does CX look like in those spaces and what are some misconceptions about it in those, those areas?
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Can I just almost say it's not existent?
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Sure, yes, absolutely.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: So I have to be really honest, it's almost non existent. I didn't know it was non existent till I didn't get into it.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: And be like, okay, like do you have some information and material around experiences? And they're like, no, we just know this campaign worked well.
Or this particular roi. We got ROI out of this. So it was very transactional in the conversations that we were having. And that was my first cue of like, okay, they're not as mature in terms of understanding what CX is like and what it kind of encompasses in all its disciplines.
So that was definitely a great learning. I think the second thing was about, oh yeah, we have a call center and they answer calls. And I was like, yeah, but that's not experience design, that's not experienced strategy. Or like our NBS code is doing well or CSAT's doing well. So. So that's definitely coming under customer support as an umbrella is a very common misconception.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: And the third one was like, okay, what's the budget?
So it was always around, want to do, okay, we understand you want to do something, but we don't have the funds for it because we, you know, we have inventory, it's a high inventory industry, so we need cash flow, etc. Etc. So a lot of other like, financial implications because of which things kind of, they didn't have the, that kind of investment to make into CX as a priority.
So that was the background of where I was getting into when I first started as a consultant across these different industries. But I think the way things started shifting there when I was working as a consultant is every project started like, oh, we need to like reduce our engine infrastructure cost to. To being like, okay, infrastructure is fine, but how is that experience going to be received or delivered to the end user? So getting from that mindset to shifting them to the other one from point A to point B, I think that was very, very transformational for me as a, as a leader in this phase. And that was organic. I have to be very honest with you. It's because of the passion and energy you bring into the room as a CX professional, as an advocate for customers, being able to let them figure out what those insights are. But you're enabling them to think in that direction, to then figure out those insights for themselves is the process that works the best for these organizations, according to my experience. And then they understand what the alignment looks like. How can we empathize and how is that going to lead to a more sustainable growth rather than it just being like, oh, an X campaign did well, or a Y didn't do, or a control test or didn't perform, etc.
That I think have been a great shift in terms of mindset.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. Curious about for industry like this. You mentioned some of the, the pushback that you would get and the challenge you would have going into a space and asking them to think differently about customer experience, customer support, customer success. What does it look like? We are still constantly dealing with the trope that customer support is a cost center, when in reality it is something that can drive so much value into an organization if done correctly.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: So what does it look like to go into these spaces and deal with those objections. What's some advice you would have for someone, perhaps somebody that's working in that space and wants to grow their part of the organization? What would that look like?
[00:14:12] Speaker B: You don't know it all. I think that's the mindset. You need to know they know more about their business. And you don't have to. Even if you know, you don't have to like show it. You. You have to go as an empty slate, receiving information and listening very, very deeply. Because once somebody feels heard and really listened, they are then all open ears to kind of listening to what you have to offer. But you have to be that empty cup first rather than expecting them to be. So that's definitely my number one advice. My number two advice would be as much as you can learn about the organization. So you're asking the right questions. Because when you're having these kind of conversations around C suite, they don't have all the time in the world to talk to you. Right, right. They're like, okay, one hour's up or X, Y and Z. So be very, very, very well prepared, but let them speak.
As much as you're well prepared, you're just enabling them to get the insights out of them and kind of figure that what that conversation looks like, know what the organizational structure looks like, know where their biggest clients are, know everything about them.
Third thing would be penning it down and putting it on paper. So once you know about them, showing what a customer journey is On a laptop versus having it printed out on a.
A 5 scale, I think really helps to visualize it and empathize with that customer and put themselves in that shoe.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: They can then see because when you're talking, you're like, oh, so this happens and then this happens and that happens. And perfect. We get the money or like we receive, you know, we have great sales, but you don't understand what that customer has gone through. And for them to empathize with that customer, you need to put them in the shoes of the customer. And to put them into the shoes of the customer, you have to kind of make it tangible, make that journey.
So I think that's extremely, extremely important.
And the fourth one would be as resilient as you are, and as much as you advocate for customers, you will not always win.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Sure. Yes, absolutely.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: And period, that's, that's the truth. So rather than aiming for like that 90%, get through the first 30, deliver it successfully, show them the results, and then push for the next 30 and then the next 30. 30 take them from ground level rather than expecting them to reach to like grade 12 immediately.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges too. I mean obviously early in our conversation we were talking about is a, is an early to mid career professional rejection just feels so challenging and it makes you want to not continue doing the thing. And that applies here as well. You know, you go to bat trying to get this deal or trying to convince a company to go out a certain way and the reality is not, not every one of them is going to. So building the resilience to go in and know I don't have to win every deal, I don't have to convince everyone of this.
They'll likely eventually be convinced because they'll see a competitor doing it the right way and realize that they are behind and that's something that they'll have to contend with and maybe I'll still be there and available to help them do it.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:24] Speaker A: But maybe not. So I think learning that resilience here is also a really key piece.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And Jordan, you gave a very good pro tip tip.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: As a part of being prepared is understanding your market competition is understanding who they perceive of their competitors.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: And then what they are doing different. Because your point is to put the understanding of what CX is and what customer insights are and all of those things in their system when they choose to execute is unfortunately out of your control.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yes, very true.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: So you can do what's within your control and make sure you do it your best. But don't take it as a personal rejection because it's not. Because your job was to go advocate and you've done that wholeheartedly.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Let's put on the hat on the other side, as somebody working for a company, let's say I'm a supporter, a success leader that's in a company and I have brought you in to consult because we are trying to do this better.
What makes for a good partner for a consultant inside of an organization?
[00:18:23] Speaker B: That's an amazing question. I think the first and foremost in terms of partnership with a consultant, it's a two way street. Right. A consultant's here to help. But if an organization is going to be resistant to change, then that's not going to kind of go anywhere and that's normal. Let's normalize that first and foremost. Right. Not sharing documents, not providing full information, just gatekeeping, that kind of security is not going to help anybody. It's not, it's not going anywhere. So in terms of great partnership, you need full transparency of information. Information.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: And sharing insights and knowledge so the other person can actually be helpful to you.
Second thing is giving them access to the right people. So cross collaboration in terms of teams is very important for a consultant to get everyone's viewpoint come from a financial background, from support, marketing, analytics, operations is huge.
Tech again plays a huge role. So they can connect the dots better for you. Right. If they don't have access to any one silo, then the full complete picture of what that looks like from a jigsaw will not be, will not be accurate. So second point would be that for sure.
Third one would be as a consultant it would be very important to understand the maturity, assess the maturity level of the organization. Right. At a different level. So there can be. It's very normal to have friction between operations and marketing on a certain thing or support and operations because somebody's gone and over deliver over, you know, delivered and it's not happened and then the product team consists of it. So these are very normal kind of nuances of a day to day business.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Understanding what those friction points are and choosing. So as a consultant you can choose the least frictional path change is very important.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: And that a consultant won't know till they don't get insights. Until they can't drive patterns out of their own. Right. So again it kind of circles back to that fourth point from a partnership. It should be time constrained, I personally feel and it should be more goal oriented. Is okay. If it's a 90 day project. We're looking for X, Y and Z.
But not just a roadmap, something more implementation oriented even if it is that one change. But you rather get it implemented and it can be measured.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:48] Speaker B: Most of the time. Unfortunately what happens is a consultant comes on board, they do all the work and then they make a document and then that document just lies there in some folder in SharePoint or Google Drive or whatever it seems. Right.
So I think when a consultant does come in, know that they're coming in with an implementation oriented mindset.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Drive an action and they will make a change and you need to be okay with it and then get somebody on board.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: I think these are few extremely key important decisions.
Again there's obviously, you know, customer segmentation, Personas, access to tools, all those are details. But these are very high over overarching points that I think are very, very human and very important because you will get access to everything else. But it's the Human that we are involved in the process, the people and the processes of things that come together. The amalgamation of that, that really defines the end goal of how a consultant can actually drive change and transform the way some journey or whatever, you kind of want to help as part of the business support.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yes, for sure. And I think that's a good way to look at it. And also a good thing to think about is I am somebody that is investing money and bringing a consultant into my business. I want to make sure we drive results. I don't want that to be a line item that the CFO looks at at the end of the year and goes, what value do we get out of this and not be able to dictate it? So we should be prepared as the person in the, in the company to be as strong a partner as we can from the get go.
Well, one of the key elements that has been throughout this whole conversation is about research. What it looks like to go into a business and understand what that business is experiencing, what their customers are experiencing, what the challenges are. Talk to me a little bit about research. Let's start there. Let's define what research looks like in this, this world.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: So for me, I think I'm born with it and I have to be really honest. And I've never actually been so woeful, vocal and said it out loud. I'm a very curious child. I need to know everything I do with that kind of pain of personality ever since I was a kid. And I didn't know that curiosity is very, very important in the research mindset and that that's a key skill because if you're not curious to know something, what you're going to do with that information is secondary. Yeah, but you need to know the information first. To know the information, you should want to know why you want to know it. Right. So I think it's a, it's a hen and chicken situation kind of thing. Yeah. So that's how I feel. Some are very curious personalities. So for me, research is always about curiosity.
I want to know and I store it in some part of my brain. And I think I've learned to realize over time based on the research I've done on myself, is that I store that information in some part of my brain and then when it's required, I'm like, I remember I read about McKinsey doing this one thing and I think that was a great strategy. And why don't we kind of learn and look at that case study and adapt to that. The fact that A, you're curious and B, you store that information and then learn how to reuse that information when required and be adaptable to it based on the learning patterns you can identify. Identify that for me is what research is. I don't think there is a clear cut definition of like a research is being able to find. Yeah, absolutely. But it's what you do with that information once you find it and how you adapt it to that situation by finding those right patterns is what research is for me. So such as curiosity and adaptability for me for sure.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I do think that that is key to understand too that every one of these engagements is going to be different in terms of what research looks like. You may partner with an organization that has the books wide open and they are ready for you to come in and get everything you need. And others you're just going to be fighting them for every bit of detail that you need. So going in with a mindset of knowing it looks different everywhere is definitely key. Last, last question here. As we think about research, how do you balance the need for obviously qualitative data? How do you balance that with the need to be able to see the quality of what's happening, but also to quantify that in terms of real metrics that are going to ultimately be the things honestly that most of the leaders that are going to be looking in on this project are interested in knowing. How do you balance those two things?
[00:25:10] Speaker B: I think when it comes to balance, you bring your whole self wherever you are.
You know, most of the times people wear different hats, so they either put a professional cap on or a person you capture.
But I think what's worked well for me, at least that's what I can advocate for and speak about, is I bring my whole self wherever I go and with me comes my human side and my emotions. And I am proud of the, of the emotions that I have. I honor them and I really respect them because it's important to have those kind of emotions. You're then empathizing with your customer better.
So bringing that to work is extremely important. When required, of course, you don't want to be over emotional.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: So I think that's the first step. The second thing I think is when it comes to understanding research and understanding data, that balance is very important from an aspect of learning what you want to find out and understanding that, but then also having a direction on how you want to use it.
Say for instance, I'm just going to give you an example is I can tell you a great story.
But the minute I enter data in to it, it say, you know, 80% said X, Y and Z.
When we did a research, there were 60% or 65% who said X, Y and Z.
Person shows ABC as an example. Right now, this storytelling is so much more easier for a person like you or for our listeners listening to kind of visualize it in their head, because there is the human side of a story. There's an emotion that they felt annoyed, angry or whatever, but then there's defining those people. And it's not huge, so it's not infinite. You've kind of concised that data in a certain direction and learned how to adapt and use it so people can visualize that and understand it better. Which also helps in increasing the credibility of the narrative that you want to put forward from a story perspective or from an insights perspective or from a research perspective per se. But then also it shows the viewer or the CEO or, you know, the C suite understand that it's the right combination of logic and emotion.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: So it feels more holistic and wholesome in terms of the insights that's discovered.
So if somebody is not using iPhone versus Samsung or, you know, is not using a certain telecom provider because they don't get network in certain regions, not getting network can be frustrating. So by just defining that 80% people are not getting network in a certain area when they use an XYZ telegram provider compared to somebody else, help the listener or the person next to you narrow it down while justifying the emotion that the person that the customer is feeling at that moment of time, because then they are able to sympathize with and empathize with themselves and say, if I was in that situation, I would have felt exactly the same. So let's take an action for it.
So I think it's. It's when it's paired, right?
It works the best.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And I think that's the key thing there. We are all humans. We are all emotional. Even if we want to act like we're not. That is something that exists in us, even if we manage those emotions well.
And so bringing that all together, I do think is a key. So as we wrap up this conversation, we'd love to just give you an opportunity for any closing thoughts you may have, anything related to the topics we've discussed or something we maybe haven't gotten to that you want to make sure our listeners hear on this episode.
[00:28:45] Speaker B: I think my only advice would be that when I started, I was one of the first ones to Kind of vocalize things, but now there's a lot of noise and it's super fluffy. And with AI, content creation has become so easy. So my only advice would be that then it's only just going to get more noisier.
So as much as you can keep your authentic self, keep that human side to your work, to driving your passion and being honest to your work. I think that's very, very important, that integrity to kind of show up in a way because you really want to make a difference rather than just using any platform or using technology to support you to just get the job done is not going to help anybody. It's an. Tech is an enabler. I'm not going to deny that. No, none of us use it. We all play around with different tools, want to learn, keep up to the game. It's important, it's very important. But that balance between not losing yourself in the process and getting your work done out of it, rather than putting your emotional or human side or your authentic side to that task or that journey, is going to reflect, is going to reflect on your work and the authenticity that you create at work. So my only advice would be just always keep your human side and have the right balance between who you are as an individual and how much tech can enable you to get things done more efficiently. But don't lose that emotional side or your.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. A great lesson to learn early in your career and remember at every stage of your career because it can be so easy to forget.
Well, if any of our listeners wanted to connect with you, hear more from you, talk with you more about the work that you do, what would be the best way to get in touch with you?
[00:30:32] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. LinkedIn is the best way to reach out to me. I'm super active on LinkedIn.
You can find me very easily.
And if you're more interested then you can also kind of search spoken a lot of podcasts. I've also written a book, co authored a book called CX5 on research in CX and I think it's a great chapter for anybody who wants to kind of kick start into diving and learning more about research.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Well, Vishali, thank you so much for joining us here at the Table. This has been a great conversation.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed being here.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Yes, thanks so much.
You've been listening to the Table Service podcast. You can find out more about today's guest in the show Notes below.
The Table Service podcast is presented by Tavolo Consulting, hosted by Jordan Hooker Music by Epidemic Sound.
